The knife Natrix with substantial copper handle is a deceptively hefty EDC. Even metallurgists can have a difficult time estimating properties just based on the elements. D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in. A European powder-metal steel used in higher-end knives, Elmax has an advanced formula, and the result is a very good all-around steel, a generation ahead of formulations like 154CM. With toughness it is a bit harder to link to only one article as I dont really have a summary of all of the toughness testing that we have done. Display: 24 per page Sort by: Featured View CIVIVI Voltaic Flipper Knife Stainless Steel Handle With Micarta Inlay (3.48" 14C28N Blade) $88.30 Add to cart YMMV I tested its edge wear resistance but not its toughness yet. Thanks Larrin, H1 However, in our testing there is a reduction in toughness by using the high temperature range rather than the low temperature range, such as was found with CPM-CruWear (Z-Wear) or CPM-10V. The study of steel is now so complex and nuanced that one can acquire a graduate degree in the subject and still learn new things every day. Ive found that most makers harden S30V too much, making it prone to chipping at the edge. Anyway, astute comment, but edge retention does mean a lot in woodworking. These steels offer a great balance of characteristics that work well, from big choppers to thin slicers. I am particularly interested in researching knife steel, knife properties, and brands. We have our views as well, and here they are! They were two different tests (different batch of steel, different person heat treating, etc). Tanto I test corrosion resistance of steels by heat treating 1 x 1.5 inch coupons, finishing to about 400 grit, and then spraying with water. Note just because a blade is made from the premium or high-end steels listed above does not automatically mean its better than the lesser steels. Is there a reason SG2/R2 are not included in the lineup, despite being one of the most popular ones? D2. 14C28N What is pulling that line high and to the right? There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. We looked at common steels used by popular knife brands to help you select the right material for your blade. The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/. If you want for best steel 14c28n and others steel then you can ready 14c28n vs 420hc review. But if you want to know what the coolest blade material is, for my money, SM100is it. False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. and our This steel is quite corrosion resistant and sharpens easily. That is an air-hardening- high carbon, high chromium tool steel. Knife steel nerds have a great write up on 14c28n nik_was 2 yr. ago It does have chromium but is not as sufficient as required to be a type of stainless steel. 14c28n vs. AUS-8 Steel [Complete Steel Guide], What is Vg-10 steel?- [Steel Knife Review], The Difference Between 440c steel vs d2: Compared guide, Is 8cr13mov Good Knife Steel [Complete Steel Guide], Amazon Best Sellers in Pocket Knives & Folding Knives. Note:There is a powder-metal version called CPM154 thats purer than the non-powder version, making it easier for knifemakers to grind. Thanks to Bill Smutz, Alex Topfer, Florian Bachler, Brunhard, Art, Rod H, Sach, Jinny Koh, Jon Duda, Cory Henderson, and UPKnife for becoming Knife Steeel Nerds Patreon supporters! Being stainless is not an on or off property, and some stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion than others. This is a bit of a guess because I cant find un-notched Charpy data on it. Available in Kershaw knives (as of 2012) and in other . They represent the absolute best performers on the market in terms of their specific attributes. (Some crazy folks clean their Swiss Army knivesin adishwasher. D2 is carbon steel that has high toughness and durability. Another common heat treating choice that is not even categorized as a mistake is tempering in the high temperature regime (~1000F) rather than the low temperature regime (~400F). Thank you for putting this together, incredibly useful! Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. So for most steels they are given a rating at around 59-62 Rc, apart from a few steels that are never used at that hardness. 1. I was just comparing AEB-L and 14c28n to decide which steel to get for my next knife project and although 14c28n seems to be a bit more abrasion resistant, my primary goal is toughness and edge stability. This is especially important for chopping knives and for knives with thin edges for enhanced cutting ability and edge retention. Thanks for the Article Larrin, Even people that are aware of your work still do knife rankings and pass them off as steel rankings. High toughness steels can be produced without powder metallurgy and also have low wear resistance for lower manufacturing costs. I would think that the label applies to either the line or the outlier, but probably not both unless the outlier is a measurement error. A lot of custom makers also like S110V, including the great RJ Martin. The edge retention and ease of sharpening have been what we expect with D2. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . They are usually chosen for their looks rather than performance. The claim is that they align the blades edge, pushing any slightly rolled over bits back into place and thus preserving the cutting ability of the knife for longer. So hard vanadium carbides means you get more edge retention for a given amount of carbide. and get better and longer-lasting performance? A cryo treatment and close temperature control is necessary to achieve those hardness levels. For example, Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all nearly identical and indistinguishable in practice. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Each steel was tested with a knife that was produced just for the test, and then sharpened the same way for each test (15 dps 400 grit CBN sharpening). This isnt exactly how steel works; different properties are difficult to increase without affecting something else. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel. Alloying elements are an important ingredient vital in getting the best steel for the job. However, even in this case there is the complicating factor of carbide and abrasive hardness. Mostly it has been presented piecemeal with all of the studies that we have done on optimizing heat treatments of different steels like CPM-CruWear, AEB-L, 52100, etc. However, it can be somewhat complicated because an edge can dull from many causes wear, micro-chipping, deformation, or corrosion. But it doesnt have great wear resistance and thus doesnt hold an edge particularly well. The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. With recommended hardness range of 55-62 HRC; the 14C28N is great for knife applications which place very high demands on edge sharpness, edge stability and corrosion resistance such as chefs knives, hunting knife, pocket knives and fishing knives. Read our full Sobata 398 review here. 14C28N VS S30V S30V steel provides improved corrosion resistance, sharpening ease, and edge retention. Also I notice 1095 looks like another underperformer as there doesnt look to be any reason to use it over 5160 which I cant imagine is any more expensive than 1095. Distilled water can separate steels that are stainless vs those that are not. The 14C28N stainless steel from Swedish manufacturer Sandvik is considered an upgrade to their 13C26 steel (described below). The excellent corrosion resistance properties of 14C28N are attributed to the high amounts of chromium in its composition. Privacy Policy. I have a few examples below for steels that I have ranges of hardness tested for both toughness and edge retention. I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. A quick check shows the compositions of these steels are nearly identical, so based on that Id expect them to perform similarly (differences in heat treat and blade geometry aside). If thats true why do you include it in the stainless steel category? It will take you more time and energy to get a sharp edge, but your efforts will pay off because the blades hold the edge longer. So what is the best steel for knives? A more obtuse edge angle is much more resistant to chipping than an acute edge. Heres The Best Review For You (2021), D2 knife blade offers high edge retention, Dulls faster, Requires frequent sharpening. D2 holds it for longer. Each test is done with 3 or more specimens to get a good average. It has an HRc over 70, usually even harder than Maxamet. Why do knives make the best gifts? https://cedric-ada-store.creator-spring.com/listing/brickard-heritage-collectionGood gravy its bricky on thingsSubscribe and hit the bell! 2. Steels that are improperly heat treated have excess retained austenite which makes them extremely difficult to deburr. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/ Steel high in carbides cant be stamped out; it must be cut by a waterjet or laser, which takes time and is more expensive. Approximately the same hardness, yes. But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. Jeff I worked at a company that heat treated D2 (1.55% C) planer blades for a company that built wood working equipment for commercial shops. Its very corrosion-resistant and quite tough. AR-RPM9 And we list budget-friendly knives that have a professional style and grace to them. The steel was developed to be free from chromium carbides which gives it properties similar to balanced non-stainless tool steels like CPM-4V and CPM-CruWear. Some steels are cooked up specifically with this in mind and are very difficult to make rust. This is a virtually stain-proof steel suitable for all sorts of aquatic environments. I would also suggest adding a hardness rating to the ratings tables that currently include toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance ratings. Im a woodworker and Im interested in making better performing plane irons and chisels. The 8Cr13MoV vs D2 debate. Having 1.5% Carbon does that. Here, we break down how to choose a flashlight, including best flashlight LEDs, batteries, designs, and more. The knives are ideal for both indoor and outdoor use. Maxamet and Rex 121 are so extreme in terms of wear resistance and edge retention that I rated them higher than 10 because otherwise it throws off the ratings for everything else. Using controlled furnace heat treating resulted in toughness around 23-28 ft-lbs at 61-62 Rc, while the knifemaker heat treated specimens were 7 ft-lbs or below. However, the 14c28n provides perfect edge retention with a maximum hardness of 62Hrc and the mixture of Chromium and Carbon. Not every wood is soft pine. These steels are typically used by forging bladesmiths, traditional folders, and some production fixed blades. Theyll be fully attributed to you with website and Patreon links, obviously. Carbon steels are those that have primarily carbon added to them with some Mn or Si as well. Sure if you dont want stainless steel fine, but there are plenty other carbon steels out there much better than 5160. Diamond and CBN stones make sharpening those steels easier. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. Unfortunately a high amount of it decreases strength. Rather than upgrade from D2 to M4 or S30V just drop the angle from 40 degrees to 30 degrees. The steel is susceptible to overheating during hardening do not overheat. A proprietary steel and heat treat developed by Busse Knives, INFI is an excellent performer and one of the best steels for big choppers on the market. Another important caveat before we get to the ratings are that these are for the steel only. 2. Some steels are more difficult to manufacture for the steel company or have more expensive alloying elements so the cost is increased. Jesse Jarosz, a custom maker from Montana, regularly uses AEB-L. When we plot toughness vs edge retention on a log scale instead we get a straight line that is a better visualization of toughness differences. The Vargo Sobata 398 is unlike any other knife on this list. On the flip side D2 steel is much harder than other steels in this category such as 154CM or ATS-34 and as a result holds its edge a little better. Oftentimes steels that are reported to be difficult to sharpen are in fact improperly heat treated and challenging to deburr. The value being slightly different doesnt mean its an outlier or measurement error. Its not bad, but you can find better in the market at the same price. I have a (relatively) short introduction before getting into the ratings with a few important things to put them into context. Im going to give the ratings first and then give more explanation about how the ratings were created. Youre right I had to check my spreadsheet. Though technically not a stainless steel due to its composition, in use it performs exactly like one. . It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. And only Vanax and LC200N have been free from corrosion with a 3.5% saltwater solution, though MagnaCut was close. Rust Test includes:D2 from Bestech and WE1095 from shop8Cr13Mov from Spyderco420HC from BuckWalmart knifeY Start (Marked D2)Follow me at:Twitter: https://twi. Also Mo additions improve corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. (I think the 420HC estimate in that post was based on simulation or computer modeling, since you didnt spray testing any of the 400 series.) Are you okay with that? If the properties of a knife meet your knife needs and it has the above characteristics, then it qualifies as a quality knife. A2 knives need care taken to avoid rust and are often coated to inhibit corrosion. Spyderco is the only production company using this steel, though Michael Gavik of Gavko knives produced a number of customs in LC 200N. D2 at 58 hard will cut much more rope than AEB-L at 62. If you want to check the quality of my work, just search for The EDC Bible on Amazon. It would be really useful to have the raw data that backs the charts that you produce. The highest edge retention steel was Rex 121 which was at 70 Rc in combination with lots of high hardness vanadium carbides. Its tough, but thats about it. The 14C28N, on the other hand, is tougher. Finally, in this 14c28n vs d2, we hope you get the right one. 14c28n vs. D2 Steel D2 is as rigid as 14c28n, thus has almost equal edge retention abilities. Vanax and LC200N are unique in reaching 59-60 Rc while being very stain resistant. In addition, According to Sandvik, 14C28N steel is easy to work on, reducing production costs and hence affordable knives. Below I have shown the difference in carbide volume between AEB-L, CPM-10V, and Rex 121 to get an idea of how much more carbide there is in the high edge retention steels. It was your original article on ratings that brought me to knifesteel nerds so its great to see your results put back into a form that will no doubt be distributed \ plagiarized widely, hopefully leading to more rational thought and better understanding by the knife consuming public (not that the misleading marketing will go away). Less expensive, conventionally produced steels include VG-10, D2, 154CM, N690, and 440C. . If you want to learn more about a specific steel, you can click it in the sorted listings below. Liquid steel is sprayed through a tiny nozzle, solidifying into a powder. Toughness is the resistance to chipping or breaking. Obviously Ill let you check the manuscript prior to publication. 2. 420 Simple, non-stainless steels of medium carbon content like 5160 also boast high toughness. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. I see tables that compare Toughness,Edge Retention,Corrosion Resistance. However, there are other factors. AEB-L and 14C28N also have moderate edge retention though of course much lower than vanadium-alloyed powder metallurgy steels like S30V or M390. The steel is similar to Sandviks 13C26. 12C27 Yes its very easy to sharpen but it doesnt hold an edge at all. Despite its wonderful performance, XHP is actually not terribly expensive compared to other high-end, all-around performers. whats even more disturbing is that cvn and fracture toughness sometimes (often?) And for high toughness you want little or no carbide. Or, is this perhaps a historically useful practice that made sense on softer/less tough steels, but would make less sense on some newer steels that can be used at higher hardness and thus higher edge stability? Carpenter produces this powder steel. It shows 3 stainless steels from 750-800tcc but the edge retention graph only has 1 SS in that range, S90v. The best steels with balanced properties include 4V/Vanadis4E, CPM-CruWear, and CPM-M4. I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. Powder metallurgy is a technology designed to maintain a small carbide size. S45VN It isnt impossible, but contrast may not be very good and the austenitizing temperatures of the two steels arent very compatible. Thats a pretty large difference in two budget steels that are often compared to each other. 14C28N steel, also known as Sandvik 14C28N, is stainless steel made by Sandvik, a European steel company in Sweden. Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. Advantages: Toughness, edge retention. The Kershaw Leek is a most popular EDC knife that design by legendary custom knife maker Ken Onion. Spyderco has their own salt spray test setup to determine the corrosion resistance and they determined that MagnaCut is sufficiently corrosion resistant for their salt series of knives. Sandvik 14C28N steel offers excellent corrosion resistance, exceptional toughness, good edge retention, and is easier to sharpen. And while it can be hard depending on the heat treat, I have found it easily chips, causing microscopic dings in the edge when hardened to a high level on a thin blade. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and can't go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. In that case the difficulty in sharpening would be the inverse of the edge retention rating. There are a few aspects to your question, I think. Not impractical fantasy knives, but these two knives that have a col look to them. Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ D2 steel also offers similar toughness levels as the 14c28n steel, so both aren't really prone to chipping with proper use. It was originally developed for use as ball-bearing steel by NASA. I have a Winkler Knives Recon model in 5160 steel and even though the knife model is ok, the steel is shit. ZDP-189 can tarnish, though not as easily as 3V. For this perfect size that for most tasks and the slim tip allows the knife to excel at piercing and detail work. Most production knives are more than thick enough at the edge to accommodate a regrind to significantly improve performance, and its a lot cheaper than buying a new knife a lot of the time. Here its 8. Would love to see where S7 sits on the Corrosion/Edge/Toughness meter. : at a given toughness, magncut will have better edge retention in real life applications than s90v if it has optimal geometry (or maybe it wouldnt, just an example). Some of these steels also have vanadium (CruForgeV) or tungsten (Blue Super, V-Toku2, 1.2519) for increased wear resistance. I also have meat cleaver 1,4116 ,58RC that I order and was looking up if its a good steel or did waist money and need to return it. SG2 Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. . Combination of knife steel properties. it seems like all the pieces are in place to develop an algorithm for this. And a label: AEB-L. Corrosion is not just about cosmetics and rusting, however, but can also affect edge performance. The Sandvik 14c28n steel is ideal for the manufacturing of steel knife blades. On the spreadsheet, youve grouped AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV. Its not a particularly great cutter, being poor at retaining an edge. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: Hello LARRIN, do you have a Rough estimate on when ApexUltra (as well as more Magnacut) will become available? REX 121 is a powder steel produced by Crucible. Also, if you want a fishing knife, 14c28n steel will survive better in wet areas than D2. For decades, different steels have been made to fit this category. 14C28N vs. D2. Moreover, the blades will serve you longer because they do not wear out faster with frequent use and sharpening. Should you continue to scroll further, you may find yourself lost in a seemingly endless list of knife steel wealth and knowledge. D2 seems to run at high hrc. I would love to see a Tungsten-Carbide blade (like Sandrin is using) and how it compares for Edge Retention, Toughness and Corrosion Resistance especially how it compares to s90v. It confirms what I always suspected and what anyone could have figured out by reading the technical data. Not every element is shown in the charts. Is 440A really that much better than 420HC, or have you found a narrower gap? They differ little in composition and treatment. These steels have sufficient toughness to handle thinner edge geometry. How do its properties compare to other steels? while its a very intuitive method and a simple way to e.g. In this article, we will discuss the characteristics, pros, cons, and differences between 14C28N and D2 knives to help to make the right choice. In my experience, it will tarnish and discolor quickly. Blue Super and 1.2562 have higher edge retention but relatively low toughness. They make excellent everyday carry steels, especially for light- and medium-duty tasks. Editors note: This article was first published in May 2015 and was most recently updated on May 25, 2020. It is among the best steel that will offer exceptional toughness while still maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. Below shows approximate maximum hardness vs stainless rating for several stainless knife steels. Can you contact me via my email address so I can send you a copy in PDF and epub. The stainless steel rating. 1095 To choose the best knife for you between the 14C28N and the D2, look at the steel properties and ensure that they suit your knife needs and lifestyle. I feel like it sharpens as easy as D2.